In this episode Cody shares his experience building gaming related websites with Django while building. We also talk about balancing between hobbies and work.
[00:00:00] Rasul: Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
[00:00:01] Cody: Yeah. My name's Cody Canadian software developer and I work full time. And then in my extra hours, when I find time I work on side projects. Yeah, I think it's it'd be hard to do that full time, but I think if it's your passion, building side projects and obviously I use Django for them.
[00:00:21] It would be real fulfilling and I find it fun.
[00:00:25] Rasul: Nice. Okay. Let's start with Django, so Django is your primary tool of choice when working on your side project.
[00:00:34] Cody: Yeah. It's the, not by choice, the first web framework I start using. And I really liked Python as language because especially nowadays you can use it for so many different types of applications.
[00:00:51] It's big on machine learning. It's, there's Python libraries for everything. It's the language I started with. So it was the obvious choice when thinking of a web framework. [00:01:00]
[00:01:00] Rasul: Cool. So you don't have any experience with like PHP or anything like that?
[00:01:04] Cody: A little bit, but anything that any times I've tried, other projects have been like, or, sorry, not other projects, other web frameworks, I've being like I could probably do this a lot easier since I know.
[00:01:17] Rasul: And yeah, I guess you use it in your day job as well, right?
[00:01:21] Cody: Yeah, I do actually.
[00:01:22] Rasul: Okay. When you, how what's your experience, would you say? Like in years, months, days?
[00:01:27] Cody: I guess the first time I used it was probably probably around six years ago. And I've been working with it in my full-time job for about four years now and probably for a good two years just hobbyist, I guess you could say.
[00:01:46] Okay, cool.
[00:01:46] Rasul: So if what was hard or what was easy? If you could just expand on maybe some of your feelings about Django.
[00:01:54] Cody: Yeah. I think that is, it's probably like universal with any web framework, but when you come [00:02:00] fresh out of learning, you only know a programming language, you don't know if web framework, there's a lot of components.
[00:02:05] There's the pages, the URLs, the views, the models and understanding how all those things interact. And there's a. There's a basic level of interaction, but every once in a while you come across, you're trying to do something a little bit off the books and finding out the best approach, is a good way of putting it are often, more than one way to do something.
[00:02:27] That's true. So that's one thing, but overall like the database interaction in general the ORM where you just define models and then you can easily filter them, annotate them, do all sorts of crazy things. I really love that because I really don't like using SQL. So that's a that's definitely a big plus.
[00:02:49] And I think Django is really good as a backend for. Serving any type of front end. If you want to use it in the built-in Django, templating and stuff as [00:03:00] awesome, if you want to use it strictly as a API server for Vue or angular, et cetera, react front end works really well for that too.
[00:03:08] And obviously it's main, yeah. Thing that they always talk about is it's easy to use, easy to set up and. I don't think that it's necessarily, I'm not going to say it's better than any other one, but for me it it has a lot of useful functionality and I think you can pretty much build any project with it, sure.
[00:03:25] Rasul: Yeah. Any, particular pain points you have with it when when you were building a project?
[00:03:29] Cody: That is a good question. One thing. I've struggled with recently is like I kinda mentioned, I was interested in trying to decouple, frontend and backend. So using Django only backend and there are some things that Django does that are good.
[00:03:49] In terms of their front end templating that I found hard to replicate using other things, but at the same time, some of those other tools didn't do a Django [00:04:00] did. And so I was I really like it. And I want to use some of its bits, but not others. But if you're trying to decouple you
[00:04:07] Rasul: yeah. Just out of curiosity which front end where you, are you talking about that, didn't catch up with the youngest template?
[00:04:13] Cody: I was, so there's a bunch of templating things I was using view, which I think is great by the way. I know there's like view react angular.
[00:04:22] I arbitrarily picked view because it was open source. But I think it's, yeah, it's, I've really enjoyed it learning a new front end thing. And I think it's the reactivity is obviously very powerful compared to Jangos front end templating, which is static. Yeah.
[00:04:37] Rasul: Have you seen I don't know if you have, but there was a discussion on Reddit.
[00:04:59] And [00:05:00] then the other spec on the other side of the spectrum. You can basically insert view inside the jungle templates and kind of use to interactively. So you enhance your jungle template with view. And that sounds good. And I S I have a good blog post about it that I read recently.
[00:05:18] I'll share it with you and in the show notes, but I haven't been able to implement it myself, but it sounds like a good solution for your problem where, you know, you can mix and match.
[00:05:27] Cody: Yeah, actually, that is what I ended up pretty much doing, because I was like, I can do this so easily. And I know how, and I was like, I don't really want to bother learning it.
[00:05:38] So I ended up using, some of the front end stuff from Django intermixed with view, but I'd be really interested in reading a blog post because I'm sure there's a lot that I I still have to learn on that. Yeah.
[00:05:49] Rasul: For me, the backend was the first thing I learned and some of the front end things that I'm encountering now are just a little confusing and hard to grasp.
[00:06:38] But to your point about picking Jones could framework, I picked view as well. I think it was mainly because it was open source. I have a feeling that this is the case for a lot of jungle users. They tend to prefer view.
[00:06:51] Cody: Yeah. Jane goes open source, so leads to, another open source solution,
[00:06:55] Rasul: so at what point, if you remember if not, that's fine, but I'm sure when you [00:07:00] start learning about maybe Django spaces. You're getting it slowly. So you're improving an improvement from, in my case, I had this moment where oh, okay, so this is how it works. And then after that point, I was a little bit more creative.
[00:07:11] Cause I was like, okay, I need to do this. I can do it that way. Do you remember or have an idea of when that happened, maybe a specific project you were working back then or?
[00:07:22] Cody: Yeah. Obviously when you when I started using it in my day there's another level that you have to go to in terms of learning, how specific parts of it work debugging things other people have written in the framework that can actually, help you learn a lot too.
[00:07:36] So probably like the first couple years of of, my day job when I was just trying to learn as much as I could about the frame. Doing all those things, like I said, looking at what other people had done. I found this book there's probably better blog posts and stuff like that now, but it was called two scoops of Django, I think.
[00:07:54] And it was a best practices book and it had a lot of interesting things that I'd never thought about. [00:08:00] For example, when you have your setting stock PI file on a test instance versus a production instance and say your source controlling stuff with get, how do have two separate settings files?
[00:08:12] Cause there's a number of ways you can do that. Things like that, little tips and tricks, you start reading blog posts, like you said, you learn a few things and it just compounds. And then one of the main reasons I started doing side projects is because there were things that I wanted to.
[00:08:30] Try out and test like view like new Django packages that didn't necessarily fit into my day-to-day job. But I was curious about, and I wanted to learn. So used my side projects as a a space to learn new things and test all these different, frameworks options, et cetera. That's
[00:08:49] Rasul: pretty cool.
[00:08:49] All right. Let me think. First of all, let me ask, do you have a timeframe? I just thought that I didn't ask you. Oh,
[00:08:54] Cody: no, no problem. Okay. I have some free time now, okay.
[00:08:59] Rasul: All right. Oh [00:09:00] yeah. Regarding two scoops of Django actually that was one of the first books I encountered as well.
[00:09:04] Yeah, so that was some valuable stuff. And especially the more I learned about Django, the more. The suggestions made sense that previously wouldn't and they just released I think it was Audrey and Danielle felt Roy, I think the couple are, they just released the same book, but for 3.0 for Django 3.0, so
[00:09:24] Cody: yeah, that was one of the things I think I had one point 11, but that's the problem with the book, right?
[00:09:30] Is Jane goes, gone from one point 11 to three. I think the last year, so exactly
[00:09:39] Rasul: 11 is still a relevant as they say.
[00:09:41] Cody: Definitely. So
[00:09:44] Rasul: if you said that you had a little experience with some other backend tools and just basically web development tools, would you be able to compare Django and then say what it wins in and what doesn't.
[00:10:23] A lot. And I think a really important thing too, that I never really mentioned is the Jangos community is really strong. And anytime you have a question about any, anything, you'll be able to find it on stack overflow or get hub issues, et cetera. And I think no, Jess is probably just as powerful or more in the community aspect.
[00:10:42] I've also tried flask, which is the other Python web framework. That's pretty popular. And I think it's also very good. It's I think it's more aimed towards, smaller projects. And I think their philosophy is more, you start with a core base that has [00:11:00] nothing, and you add components.
[00:11:01] Whereas Django has a pretty good set of components built in with it. And then you grew up things. If you need, super extra. So yeah, for me, like building a, any sort of sizable project, I leaned toward Django cause it had a lot of, the authentication things like that built in, which are nice.
[00:11:19] Yeah. So yeah. Okay.
[00:11:21] Rasul: So I'm working on a little, like a section of a, of an episode I'm just going to call it blitz for now. I only have to quit. I only have two questions in it. Do you prefer a function-based to use or class-based use
[00:11:34] Cody: now? I probably in the past six months started liking class-based views because I think that they only came out fairly recently in the terms of things.
[00:11:47] So the entire length span of Django, but more or less class and function-based views as far as I know are the same. The good thing about class-based views is obviously like you can do things like inheritance. So especially in [00:12:00] my day job, we started implementing them a ton because we had a lot of similar views.
[00:12:04] They did the same thing, but maybe for a different model or, just had to, but all the views had basic sections, which were super easy to modulize into class-based functions. And then. If you had to change something, you just inherit it switch over. So you have for now it's class-based for sure.
[00:12:23] Rasul: Okay. Nice. And for your projects that we'll talk about in a moment what hosting do you use?
[00:12:28] Cody: Right now I'm using a host called vulture, V U L T R. I was looking, there's the digital ocean is probably the most popular one. Vulture. I think I originally chose just because of the fact that they had a two 50 option versus a $5 option for any in smaller size.
[00:12:49] But I ended up going for the $5 one anyways, because of the 2 51 was only available in certain region ins and stuff like that, but, okay. It's been good. I [00:13:00] don't think I don't know. I just have a VPs. So it's a Linux server to me. I don't think I don't think it would make much of a difference to me if I was on, another hosting, but yeah, they've been good.
[00:13:15] Rasul: Yeah. So for my projects, I tried digital ocean and I use digital ocean for the $5 droplet. And the first thing I tried was Hiroko because they say it's easy, you don't have to finish the service. And then actually that was the first thing I wanted to try. And I just didn't understand.
[00:13:31] And but back then, I didn't know anything about web development. I probably want to give it another go now, sometime now, maybe, but the, yeah. Having experienced setting up the server was fun and then just, felt good because you learn something new, so certainly can advise anyone.
[00:13:48] Cody: Yeah. Yeah. Service can be painful
[00:13:50] Rasul: though. Yeah. Yeah, they are hours spent trying to find an issue with what's happening. I didn't understand. But once you [00:14:00] had this issue a couple of weeks ago permission issue so I tried to add a site to build a Django via the admin. And then you just, 500 error.
[00:14:11] I go inside the server and then I was, oh, maybe that I, maybe I can do that. And I go that change this very quickly restart the internet server and then it works or yeah. Yeah, that felt good. I knew what would fix it quickly. That's cool.
[00:14:26] Cody: Yeah. That's a good feeling sometimes. Yeah.
[00:14:28] Servers are like very much a. Programmer in terms of the backend and, dealing with things like server issues or just not my personal cup of tea. So anytime things works. It's good.
[00:14:45] Rasul: I get it. I totally agree. That's it for the blitz. So two questions we're done now. If we, okay, let's talk about your projects.
[00:14:52] So the project that you submitted to build with Django and you actually, you were the first real user who submitted it. Which I'm very [00:15:00] thankful for his armory gaming gear. So that's basically people showing or listing the tech, the gear that they use for it, for gaming. Yeah. Tell us a little more about the project.
[00:15:10] Why did why did you said build it and how you.
[00:15:15] Cody: Yeah. So you basically explained the basis of it pretty pretty well. I've always been big into games and big into what keyboard mouse people are using, all the gear, headset, all that. And there are a number of sites online that sort of do this thing.
[00:15:33] If you want to look up what your favorite influencer. Gamer, Twitch streaming e-sports, et cetera, what kind of equipment they use. But the thing that I found across all these sites was that they were a lot of outdated information and the process of updating it was basically sending an email to the admin.
[00:15:53] And also there, I saw an opportunity for you. If I want to list [00:16:00] my stuff. So if I'm a nobody, or even if I'm a, one of these big streamers and I want to update my own account there wasn't really an option for that either. So what I decided to try and do was implement a system where anyone could crowdsource the information.
[00:16:16] And do that by providing sort of proof. So you provide a link to where you saw them using that piece of equipment et cetera. Cool. And yeah, that was basically what I wanted to try and tackle with armory.
[00:16:31] Rasul: Was it fair to say that was like your first site?
[00:16:33] Cody: I would say it's my first, you complete side project.
[00:16:37] Yeah. Okay, cool. I've had sort of other ideas that I've worked on a little bit, but it was definitely the first sizable project that I took from start to finish. Okay.
[00:16:47] Rasul: I know this question, doesn't get a lot of good good rap in the community, but what tech stack do you.
[00:16:52] Cody: So I use, yeah, obviously Django.
[00:16:56] I use one of the things I wanted to try with that [00:17:00] project was the Django rest framework package. Because I think that's probably one of the most popular packages for Django, because like I said it's a very popular backend for serving APIs and I can see why the, it was a great package. It was pretty easy.
[00:17:49] Rasul: Is does it, the design is still in a bootstrap. Yup. Looks the site looks great. I wouldn't say. Sometimes you can see the website and you just know it was made with stuff that you [00:18:00] can kinda
[00:18:00] Cody: just see you see that a lot, actually.
[00:18:02] Yeah. Yeah. I tried to least, change the colors and do things a little bit. I'm I like bootstrap because I'm not, a designer or really a super front end guy. And the basic components that it provides a really nice cause I think for the most part, they look nice. Yeah. If you can style them up a bit and, make it not look so bootstrappy, I think it's pretty great.
[00:18:24] Rasul: If in my case when I started, working the first project when me was when it wasn't my personal website, and then obviously the first choice was bootstrap and. I'm not desire as well. I'm not that creative, I saw some examples of sites and then I just, okay, I want to do something like this.
[00:18:39] And then when I tried to do it, I just couldn't achieve it with bootstrap. So it ended up doing CSS, just plain TSS, and then stumbled upon tailwinds CSS, pretty popular these days. Yeah. And know when, back to the framework, but I still do get this problem where, since I'm not a designer, it takes me awhile to, to, to make a design.
[00:18:57] And you just it's sometimes it's very
[00:18:58] Cody: annoying. [00:19:00] Yeah. I also find when I'm using like even bootstrap or whatever framework, I end up tweaking a lot of things overriding a lot of their things to try and make it look like I envision it, but yeah, it's it definitely, yeah. You still have to, learn a lot in terms of design from even like an aesthetic point of view before, before tools like bootstrap will help you, but it certainly helps a little bit
[00:19:28] Rasul: for sure.
[00:19:29] So how long did you, would you say since you call it a complete project, how long would you say it took you to build?
[00:19:34] Cody: I could check like my good hub repo, but I would say I. Probably from concept until it was more or less sure. Probably about a year. The first six months was a lot of just brainstorming and, may be, I started the Django project, but I wasn't really working on it that much.
[00:19:57] And then there is probably a three or four [00:20:00] months sprint where I was working on it. A few hours a week, at least trying to get it done. Yeah.
[00:20:08] Rasul: How do you acquire users for this specific project? How do you get out there? Cause you have a lot of users submitting their year, so what's your process.
[00:20:18] Cody: Yeah. I have not that many and that's one of the things I. I definitely struggle with in the, from making a website to actually getting users and, monetization in that. But one thing I really wanted to try since I am the, a coder programmer was to see, to do as much good, SEO and all that kind of thing as I could to get organic.
[00:20:41] And that was something I wanted to learn a part of this project too. So I spent a lot of time learning about, things like open graph and how you make your site pop up with a little image on Twitter and Facebook and all that. Yeah. Things like, especially in relation to [00:21:00] Django like a profile page is obviously like a template.
[00:21:03] So how can I. Have things like the title and the description and things like that on a page automatically fill with information from the database, which is cool. So yeah, organic traffic, Nick, and then I haven't really been too hard. Like I don't really want to advertise or anything like that, but I've been trying to find.
[00:21:25] Posting in communities like indie hackers and that sort of thing. And yeah, I think if, I think once I had a really solid base, I would maybe try things like reaching out to gaming influencers and stuff like that. But in my thought, at least I'm like, I want to make sure I have a good base of organic users.
[00:21:48] And, flesh some more things out before I start going down that road.
[00:21:54] Rasul: Okay. That makes sense. So let's talk about your other project. I think gaming list.co [00:22:00] that's. It's so much simpler. Yeah, that one.
[00:22:03] Cody: Yeah, that one is actually not a Django project. That was I had a.
[00:22:08] List in my sort of ideas to do app of just like other cool gaming sites. Cause that was the one thing when I was building armory, I think gaming is obviously like a massive market. And when you look on, the sort of indie maker community on indie hackers and product hunt and those sort of places you see a lot of, a business to business and I was thinking.
[00:22:34] There needs to be more gaming, cool gaming sites and apps, not just for, games and actual game development, but what I call like peripheral or accessory. Things like armory and gaming list was just a collection of sites that cool sites that I'd found and I wanted to keep track of.
[00:22:49] And then I thought I might as well try and make it into a.
[00:22:54] Rasul: That makes a lot of sense, but I do agree with you now, and that will come to think about it. You do see a lot of, [00:23:00] productivity apps. You see a lot of, let's see what else like journaling, if I tried to make it a compelling thing. There are themes around what in the heck is built, but you're right.
[00:23:10] There's not a lot around gaming. Actually I, I. When I was researching your projects, they are game focused. And the first question that came up to me is that, have you ever tried building a game or building a game rather than a, game related project? And if so, have you tried doing it with Django?
[00:23:32] Cody: So yeah, I actually when I was in university, My university had a program that was like it was just like a certificate where if you took certain courses as electives like options you could just get this certificate. So I actually got a certificate in games development, along with my degree.
[00:23:50] And I when I graduated, I had the choice of going into software engineering or games. And the more I learned about the traditional [00:24:00] gaming industry, the more it became obvious that I didn't want to go that route. Okay. Cause there's in the big, a gaming studios there's this idea that, it's higher stress, less pay, more work.
[00:24:14] And to me. Making games and playing games has always been something, that should be strictly for fun. So I decided if I was ever going to do game development, it would just be, me building games and apps, and I've I've never quite gotten, a full product out, but I've certainly.
[00:24:29] Made sort of mini games and stuff like that before. Yeah. And using Django, I'm not sure if Jenga would be the right framework for a game, but I'm sure you could do lots of cool things like maybe like quiz games and things like that could work really well. Maybe some sort of I dunno, quiz or.
[00:24:51] But I don't think Django is really the place for graphics and that sort of
[00:24:54] Rasul: thing. Oh, I was Googling that called to make a game with Django. Cause obviously it's something that kind of comes to mind [00:25:00] is more like text-based games. Like maybe even a game, like Pokemon where, you interact with with text or something that does not, That's hard to describe but I see what you mean.
[00:25:09] Yeah. You can really build GTA with know.
[00:25:12] Cody: No, I don't think so. It would be tough. It would be very tough. It
[00:25:17] Rasul: would be tough. So for the gaming Melissa site I noticed that you had an ad space for, I think yeah. Introvert.
[00:25:24] Cody: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:25:25] Rasul: Have you, has anyone ever paid.
[00:25:28] Cody: No, definitely not. So that was something like I said, I use sort of my my side projects as test beds for things.
[00:25:36] And I thought introvert was really cool because I think probably everyone can agree with me. I hate just like playing Google ads. Sometimes they're necessary, but I really liked the idea of people being able to buy a specific ad for your site. And I was thinking of implementing it into our.
[00:25:53] So I was like I might as well use this gaming list site as a test bed. Yeah. I wanted to try and implement it and it was [00:26:00] super easy and I think it's a super cool idea, but I was like, I think I set my price to something completely ridiculous. Like I think it's over a hundred dollars or something that was like, if anyone's in books.
[00:26:10] Oh really? Okay. So it's not that unreasonable, but he, I thought if if if anyone's gonna do this. It can like something outrageous. So I actually get some money out of it.
[00:26:21] Rasul: That's a good idea. That's a good idea. And I saw the introvert project. I think it was actually made by a fellow in the hacker.
[00:26:26] Cody: Yeah, I think I saw it on indie hackers. I'm pretty sure. Yeah.
[00:26:30] Rasul: And one last question on your project is the community that's, the slack community, the B2C community. That we're in in the profile you have working on trophy. What's the what's that because I wasn't able to find it.
[00:26:44] Cody: Yeah, that's my work in progress right now. I basically, I got armory to a place where, I didn't feel like adding any more features at the moment, et cetera. And I had this idea that it'd been festering in my [00:27:00] mind that I wanted to try it. So I've been working on this one is using Django and more or less the same tech stack is armory, except I wanted to try to graph QL, which is also cool.
[00:27:09] But trophy is basically a, I thought it would be cool if people could build or sorry, could make their own gaming achievements. So I don't know if you're familiar, but it's X-Box PlayStation and steam. They have these things called achievements or trophies. And they're basically, goals outside of what you need to complete the game that you can unlock by playing it.
[00:27:34] And I thought it would be a cool idea. If I could build something where people can make their own. So a trophy is basically you record a game clip, and then you say you beat some boss in a game in 30 seconds. You say you make a trip. With that clip complete this boss in 30 seconds. And then other people can reply with their own trying to unlock your achievement or, try and one [00:28:00] up you and yeah.
[00:28:00] So that's the project I'm working on right now. Would
[00:28:03] Rasul: you I are looking to integrate it with the gaming systems you mentioned earlier, or would it have to be external as in, I set up a goal on your site? And then I go play on my PS4 and then if I choose that goal, I go back to your site and then say, okay, I achieved that goal.
[00:28:21] Cody: So what I've done for now is you can you can import your clips from different places like YouTube, Twitch, X-Box PlayStation doesn't have an open API for grabbing those, but you can share it to somewhere else. And then. I think it would be really cool if you could somehow integrate it into games, but obviously game developers, aren't going to waste their time on my unreleased project.
[00:28:48] Rasul: We'll see if it goes well, and spoke to them. Why not? I think it's a cool thing
[00:28:52] Cody: to have. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that would be really cool, almost offering like a service Lino achievements as a [00:29:00] service or something like that. Yeah, but for now you can basically. Like all these things, like Xbox PlayStation, they usually have, re record my gameplay and you can import those straight from my site.
[00:29:11] Rasul: Just out of interest, what games do you play now?
[00:29:13] Cody: Right now I've been playing like the VR games, like call of duty war zone. I've started gaining with FPSs and like the original halo and stuff like that. So I play a lot of those games, like rainbow six been trying, Counter-Strike in the new valor and game.
[00:29:29] Okay. But I do, I'll play any game, like animal crossing.
[00:29:33] Rasul: All right. Yeah. Board games.
[00:29:36] Cody: Yeah. I actually love board games too. There's a board game. I'm a big fan of right now called Whitson wages. It's like trivial. But you gamble on the answers. I'm
[00:29:47] Rasul: recording it. I have to check it out.
[00:29:49] Can you plead with two
[00:29:50] Cody: people? Yeah, you can play with two people. I think it's two to six or something like that. It's like a, it's not too intense, like a fun game
[00:29:58] Rasul: RDS. What sounds cool. [00:30:00] Like a crossing between like trivial pursuit and poker or something.
[00:30:03] Cody: Yeah, a little bit.
[00:30:05] Rasul: Yeah, myself.
[00:30:05] I've been an airplane. The minion and those. Okay. Actually just recently we have been playing a lot of backgammon that turned to be okay, but just got a little tired of it.
[00:30:16] Cody: Yeah. That's I think like learning games, like backgammon and chest are like super valuable. I've been a little bit into chess for a little while.
[00:30:25] Rasul: Yeah. Me too. I was dropping off at the end. Do you have a going back to Django theme? Do you have any suggestions for people who just starting out or for people just basically less experienced with you in your, you have anything to share?
[00:30:39] Cody: Yeah. I think Jangos built in tutorial is actually really good.
[00:30:44] It's gone through obviously like a lot of iterations and. Explains the core concepts of how to make a basic app pretty well. And if you're someone who doesn't have a lot of programming experience, I think Python is probably [00:31:00] one of the easier programming languages to grasp while still being powerful enough to do, most things.
[00:31:07] So I think, as far as web frameworks, it's a good place to start for sure. And then just the great thing about programming and these web frameworks is there's so much free information online there's tutorials and blogs and articles and stack overflow, and it don't be afraid to ask questions and try things out.
[00:31:27] Yeah. Yeah,
[00:31:28] Rasul: for sure. So you mentioned two scoops of Django. Were there any other resources that you found particularly useful?
[00:31:34] Cody: That was the sort of one book PDF that I looked into. The Jenga website has, like I said, their documentation and stuff I think is really important to look at if you're developing.
[00:31:45] I can't think of any other sites off the top of my head for tutorials and things like that. But if you Google you'll get tons of good stuff. Sure. Even like medium articles on more specific things. And if you're looking for [00:32:00] inspiration, checkout built with Jenga. Yeah.
[00:32:03] Rasul: Thank you.
[00:32:04] That's awesome to hear. If, if people are interested in and they want to ask you questions, where can they reach you at? If you're open
[00:32:10] Cody: to that? Yeah, I think I'm if you ever want to hit me up. Twitter. I think my Twitter is linked from armory gaming gear. The notes, my personal Twitter is, might be on there as well.
[00:32:23] You can hit me up on all of my, like armory, Twitter, and that is just me too. So don't be afraid. Okay, cool. And yeah, if you see me on, indie attackers or in slack group or whatever, don't be.
[00:32:35] Rasul: Perfect. Do you have, is there anything you wanted to tell us or something I didn't ask?
[00:32:39] Cody: I don't think so.
[00:32:40] Thank you very much for having me on and no, thank you. Yeah. Thanks.
[00:32:47] Rasul: Cool. Have a good evening. Bye.
[00:32:49] Cody: Yeah, you as well.